3PX Coaching

The Biggest Leadership Lie About Growth

• 3PX Coaching • Season 2 • Episode 7

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 54:17

Send us Fan Mail

In this episode of the 3PX Show, Steve and Wayne unpack one of the biggest misconceptions in business: believing that adding more people automatically fixes organizational problems. As companies grow, pressure increases, leadership gaps become obvious, and difficult decisions can no longer be avoided.

They discuss how to recognize when someone is in the wrong role, why loyalty should never replace accountability, how to develop leaders before growth overwhelms them, and why protecting your culture requires having hard conversations. If you're a business owner, executive, or manager navigating growth, this episode offers practical leadership lessons you can apply immediately.

🌍 Interested in getting one-on-one coaching from the 3PX team? Go to https://3pxcoaching.com

Follow us on Instagram:
Wayne Foreman: @wayne4man
Steve Kincanon: @Steve_kincanon

LISTEN TO THE SHOW
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1810132342
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6icTxp0wsvMPmnjZsGtybV

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/3pxcoaching/
📖 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/61575312680020

Intro and outro music by Korshun
https://audiojungle.net/user/korshun

Produced by Quentin White | @quentinlwhite

🌍 Interested in getting one-on-one coaching from the 3PX team? Go to https://3pxcoaching.com

Follow us on Instagram:
Wayne Foreman: @wayne4man
Steve Kincanon: @Steve_kincanon

LISTEN TO THE SHOW
Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/podcast/id1810132342
Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6icTxp0wsvMPmnjZsGtybV

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/3pxcoaching/
📖 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/61575312680020

Intro and outro music by Korshun
https://audiojungle.net/user/korshun

Produced by Quentin White | @quentinlwhite

SPEAKER_00

Keeping someone in the wrong role is not kindness, it's negligence. And that can't be tolerated when you're when you're leading any any kind of a chip.

SPEAKER_02

The things you watch are the things that always take that always pay in check, right?

SPEAKER_00

What happens when the tide actually rises? So when when the business is growing, what's actually happening? Decisions are getting faster, standards are getting higher, and here's the big one mistakes get really, really expensive. All right, welcome back to the 3PX show. We are glad where am I looking? Welcome back to the 3PX show. We're glad you're here. Yes, we are. Um, you know, I there are a lot of times when we come in this morning in the mornings where it's like, okay, it's kind of early. I got to rally, you know, put off a good vibe. But um, I'm really in a good mood. Well, fantastic. I'm really in a good mood. We um we've just had such amazing things happening.

SPEAKER_02

We have, you know, that's that's actually really cool with our companies.

SPEAKER_00

And it's like um I I told Wayne last week, maybe or maybe the week before. I don't want to be a liar. I said, hey, things are going good. Now's the time we got to watch, right, pay attention, ask questions, be careful. Like, now's not the time to to settle down. But um, new product launch went smoother than any product launch we have ever had, probably in your history. Sold out of the product that we had in four days. And then sold out of the uh extra emergency PO that we had to cut before it even landed. Um all right. I'm excited about this, about this one because um I I I try, we specifically, but I as I try to set these podcasts up, I try to talk about things that like we're dealing with. We're in the middle of, we're facing, you know, so uh, because we're not gonna be up here, you know, being fake. We're we're we're trying to talk about things that we've been through and that you can learn from our mistakes or stuff that we're we're trying to navigate right now and we're learning and and all that kind of stuff. So this is one of those, this is one of those topics where really this episode and the and the next episode, you're not gonna want to miss. Um, so hang in there. But but uh these next two episodes, these are things that we have had to battle through, go through, fight through, and um and and really they can be culminated like this one sentence talks about today and the next episode, and that is filtering people and filtering work. Right. They go hand in hand. So um, you know, I the way I want to kick this off is everybody loves the saying that a rising tide lifts all ships, but nobody talks about when like what happens when some of those ships need to stay back at port.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Right? Not everything needs to move all at once, right?

SPEAKER_00

Not everything needs to move. And so when a when a business is growing and things are moving fast, it forces everyone inside the company to move faster, to learn, to grow. But but there are there are a lot of times where people just don't have that capacity or that ability. And that's what we're gonna get into today is how do you navigate those tough situations?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And that's a good, good uh point. You know, it it actually tests the entire vessel, right? So when you're moving super fast, you're you're you're testing not only the people, but you're testing the overall vessel of the ship kind of thing, where, you know, hey, is it leaking? And and that's when you find the leaks. And you can find the leaks. If it's sitting still, it may not leak at all. But when you start moving, it's it's gonna test the boundaries of everything. And it's gonna test uh the people that are on board that are actually leading the ship to make sure everything is is working properly. So it's uh it's a big deal.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and and what you're talking about here is basically with with regard to the ship, when you when you're growing, growth creates pressure and pressure, pre- Did I just say pressure? Pressure, you did. That's that's a new word that just combines them both together. So growth creates pressure, and then pressure exposes issues, it exposes good things, it exposes bad things, and then after that, you're stuck with reality. So it, you know, growth, pressure, exposure, reality. What you choose to do as a leader when you see that reality, this is where leadership can get uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And um I I think I have said this before. I want to I'm gonna say it again just for the context of this podcast. And I don't mean this in any in any kind of way, positive, negative, or anything towards anyone who's works for us now, used to work for us, or anything like that. But um, when you look at the executive team that you have today, yeah, there isn't anyone on that team who was here before me. That's true. And that's and and that's not a good or a bad thing. It just happened to be a necessary thing for us to keep keep moving and keep growing.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Well, as you continue to grow, you continue to ex expand. And you know, the it's just it's not that we're out, you know, trying to replace people. It's just uh, you know, you've gotta you've gotta grow and and lift your and elevate the people that you have with you. And sometimes you've got to bring in new people that can add more expertise and had have different values to them and stuff. And so uh as you grow, that's just part of the part of the overall cycle.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Now if you if you look at um, I hate to make it sound like we're some big conglomerate, but if you look at the layers of management that we have inside of our company, right from from from the you know, quote unquote top down, what you will see is you will see a very high percentage, you know, 100%. Uh uh outside of Wayne, Wayne keeps our Wayne keeps us from being 100%. So 80%, I guess that would be what our our executive team, 80 or so percent, is um is is newer in the in the last four or five years.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Right. But when you go the next level down and you look at our senior leaders, directors, um, see you know, senior level manager positions, now you're about 50-50. Right. It's like half have been here for you know five or more years and the other half are new. So we have a very good blend, a very good mix. And then when you go down, like specifically with the operations side to that next level, well, now you're like 75% of that team has been with us for over five years.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right. So I think that's a good story of, and and we actually have things to talk about here, but uh this is so easy to talk about because we're living in it. That's a good story of balancing. Hey, we're bringing in the right fresh talent to keep the business moving into territories that we have never been before. We're bringing in managers who can bring some expertise in specific departments, skill sets to add value to the organization. At the same time, we are developing internal talent to keep the culture, to keep the the quote unquote tribal knowledge on board. And then the people who are closest to the action, the vast majority of those have been with us for an extremely long time. And I feel like we have done a really, really good job keeping those individuals engaged, giving them opportunity to continue to grow, make more money, do more, do more things, elevate their their leadership. Um so we have put ourselves in a good position very intentionally.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, uh, which is super important. I mean, it and it and it's you know, I used to always say uh the the saying where um as we elevate, as we start uh learning your job, it's uh uh uh how was I gonna try to say talking about a secession planning? But one of the things that I always say was uh, you know, work yourself out of a job, you know, work yourself to where you have people that can come in. So when it's time to to grow and to expand, you know, you want to be able to take that next step. So you need to make sure you got a person behind you can do it. That's how I'd look at it. You called it secession planning, which is more in line with what truly is. But, you know, that's one of the things that you brought when you came in is hey, let's really lay it out. Let's make sure that we have every single position lined out. So in case something happens or whatever, because we don't know what the unseen is, right? You know what tomorrow holds for us. And so we need to make sure that we're level on every area of the business. And so that's been super important. So as we've brought in new leaders, you know, we're def we're still developing and still pouring into the leaders, even the ones that have been here for a long time, we want those to elevate, right, to to where they can get into better positions. And for the most part, they have. They've done a great job in doing it and and leveled up and and part of that. And and, you know, even with our fall classes that we do where we are trying to get our teams to grow and to strengthen that area. Um, if you look at every position within the company, we're pretty solid. I mean, we're pretty, you know, one, two, three deep kind of thing, is which is uh a super nice feeling. I mean, that's uh when you look at a good football team or or whatever, they they have depth. And that's uh that's one of the things that I think we're we're pretty strong at is having pretty good depth in our system.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Uh w we're not afraid of people going on vacation anymore. No, we're not not at all. We're not held hostage by anybody anymore.

SPEAKER_02

And that's a huge thing. I mean, a lot of business owners are, and a lot of business owners feel like they can't live and they can't do anything, or even the managers around them because they are stuck in the middle of the action 24-7, and they're because there's nobody behind them that can fill their shoes. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00

And uh you've you've walked that life for a for a long time, right? So you you you're you're not talking to business owners because you've never been there before. You know what that feels like to be to be sort of quote unquote stuck. Yeah. You know, kind of.

SPEAKER_02

And that's a tough position. Nobody wants to be in that position. Everybody wants to be able to, hey, let's build a business, let's make it have success to where I can uh step away and go on vacation, go enjoy life, you know, make a little bit of money. And um and the reality is it, you you end up being married to it if you don't watch out and and and really try to build a program that's to that uh to that point. And you know, don't be afraid if you're a business owner, don't be afraid to hire people that are smarter than you to bring in teams that are that bring a value that that you know your organization doesn't have. And when you do that, you can see the elevation just start happening in front of you to where, hey, I don't have to worry about that anymore. I don't have to worry about this side over here anymore. And again, I look at it in my position right now. I mean, I'm in a in a really sweet spot because really anything outside of my door is what I tell people, you've got you you run it, you do a great job with it, and uh I don't have to worry about too much. I mean, we we talk and we go over things, but for the most part, you're running it, but you have such a solid team that works underneath you that again, you can go on vacation yourself and enjoy vacation yourself at this point. I just scheduled one. I know.

SPEAKER_00

My typical Thursday through Sunday. You know me.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you know, you gotta start somewhere, right?

SPEAKER_00

Because it's funny when that you say that because uh You forced the last vacation I went on, actually, the only vacation I can remember where I was out for an entire week, you forced me to take it.

SPEAKER_02

I did. You sure did. You know, the funny thing is for years I would go on a Thursday evening to Monday vacation, or sometimes even come back on Sundays, and that was it. Just many, many vacations, a little pop here, a little pop there, and all that, because I didn't want to be gone the whole week. And so now I've been able to take the full week vacations. Now I'm seeing you in that position, but you know, still you gotta you're that that you start at one point, you know, because you didn't want to take vacations for a while.

SPEAKER_00

I just it's hard. You you said this on the on the last episode or two. It's just who we are, and I I can't turn it off, but also like I don't want to turn it off. Yeah, well, it's fun. I enjoy you know, thinking about what we do and staying connected and you know, so and just because we go on vacation doesn't mean we turn it off, right?

SPEAKER_02

It never Stephanie still says to me, even though if we're gone a full week or something, she's like, Are you I mean, are you gonna work the whole time? I'm like, honey, I'm this is just who I am. I mean, I enjoy getting up in the morning and you know, I'm gonna have coffee, I'm gonna do a little bit of work, and I'm gonna, you know, I got my phone with me. It doesn't matter where you are in the world, if you because just about everywhere in the world now has Wi-Fi service, and so you can get on your phone and you can check emails, and as long as I can check emails, I'm pretty much in tune with what's going on because that and teams.

SPEAKER_00

I feel like we're chasing a rabbit here, but um I I I just want to say that it makes me think I can't I can't think of a time where I have really unplugged, um except for maybe like my first back surgery, I think. And that's because I you know that I was out of it, out of it for the first, you know, few days. Um but there's to me when it when it comes to leaving work, there's not a whole lot worse I can think of than when you come back on Monday and you don't know what's happened the last week and you just feel like you've missed so much and it takes so long to get caught up and all that all that kind of stuff. But um, so this is not a problem with our people. This is a problem with Wayne and Steve. It's just I would rather stay connected, I would rather know what's happening, you know. I can still enjoy a vacation, I can still have fun and all that. I just need a couple hours throughout the day or early or late, whatever, to just read everything, know everything, and and then and then I'm good. That way you get back in the saddle and you're not slowing the team down. You can just jump right back in and keep moving.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you know, he says that uh this is not a problem for for Wayne and Steve. The funny thing is it's really not a problem because it's it's every business owner that's out there that's trying to have a successful business, and it's every uh executive that's out there because you know, you can unplug, but you don't unplug, right? Now, this past uh trip that uh Stephanie and I made when we went to uh Park City and then into San Diego to see Allison, um I never once opened my laptop. I don't believe that. I didn't. How are you gonna do that?

SPEAKER_00

You didn't really open your laptop.

SPEAKER_02

I had my phone, but I never took my laptop out of my that that may have been the first time ever, because we left on a Wednesday, got back on a Tuesday, so basically a full week out of work, but I never opened up my laptop. I didn't have to. But you had it with you. I had it, oh, I had it with me, trust me.

SPEAKER_00

It was with me the whole entire time.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

The last time we traveled, I didn't bring I didn't even bring my laptop because the time before I I never opened it. Everything I did was on my phone. I'm like, I didn't even bring it. Yeah. So it just it still scares me. Well, this next well, but but I don't have to do your problem, is you really have to do like some very specific high like high security banking type things that require you to open your open your laptop if if we get into a pinch. Now, now we have we have added some redundancy to the business. I'll never forget it wasn't too too long ago where if we needed like transfers or transactions or something that'd be done between accounts or between banks, it's like no matter where what Wayne was, whether he was in the country, out of the country, or whatever, like we were getting a hold of Wayne. Hey, can you log in and approve this or can you move this or do this or whatever? So we've added some redundancies to take some, take that pressure off you, or now we actually have someone else that can, you know, do that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and that's you know, I haven't had to do that in a long time. I don't even, you know, I still look at cash flow, trust me, I look at that uh still like a hawk, but I haven't touched my cash flow system in quite a while because it's uh and we and that's very good because you know Angela's uh uh overseeing that part of it, but Jonathan is actually running it and stuff, and so Angela can do it, Jonathan can do it, and I can do it, and so it's uh and it and it works, you know. So that that's a good part about it. I don't have to think about that at all.

SPEAKER_00

This is still technically on topic, but we're gonna stop it. We're gonna stop in 20 minutes, whether we're done or not. Okay. But I just want to say the the value of trust. Um and loyalty can have a bad connotation. And I'm actually I'm gonna get into loyalty in a in a minute here. Um but I'm gonna say loyalty in the in the in the very best possible sense. Loyalty because you just you love what you do, you love the person you're doing it uh for or the person you're doing it with, and you love the people who are around you. So it's so loyalty is is very good in that sense. Loyalty can be bad if it's like abusive kind of loyalty, right? Exactly. But when I think about um the the team that we have, specifically Angela. Now, this goes along with what with what we were saying. Now, Angela was was in like a controller role um before she came to us. When we hired Angela, we brought her in as an accounting manager, right? And and right away we saw like she's different. Yeah um, ultra committed, got in the weeds, fixed things, didn't tolerate problems, didn't tolerate issues, didn't just delegate problems away to other people. She got invested. I mean, I could talk, I could do a whole podcast just watching the evolution of Angela Sloan inside this business from an operator and also from a leadership perspective, having confrontational conversations, managing up, confronting me, confronting you, having difficult conversations that she otherwise never would have had, putting herself in situations with other very high-level leaders, very high-level executives from other organizations, and really not just holding her own in those conversations and in those meetings, but like but shining. Right. Right. That is an example of you've got diamonds in the rough in your business, and you've got to recognize who those people are, and then intentionally pour into them because she had and can she has the loyalty and the the integrity and the honesty of someone that you want to be able to give all your cash access to, yeah, all your passwords to, like that was that's a big win for us.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you know. And she's really owned it well. Like you said, when she came in as an accounting manager and we saw that the difference in her, you know, we talked about this uh in our last uh leadership uh meeting, uh, I think last Thursday, um, about you know, the visionary uh integrator dynamic, right? And everybody was like, well, what about my department? Am I still like just uh an integrator or am I a doer? You know, well, really each department has you trickle that down to where, hey, Angela is the visionary for the accounting side of it. Well, she is. I mean, you look at what she uh built, you know, it's not something that we look at and say, oh, well, we're gonna do this, this, and this, and and turn those switches. Well, no, that's her department, and she has built a really rock solid team, right? I mean, over the past few years, when she came in, what she came in, what, three to 40 years ago? About a year after you.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, about a year after me.

SPEAKER_02

Um, as she came in, you look at where we were then and where we are today in our accounting system, that's a that's a tremendous build. I mean, I I couldn't have envisioned where we are now back then, you know. And and she has been the visionary. She's seen it, she's built it, and she's building that secession planning super solid and super strong. And and and you know, you've done that, you've seen, and you're gonna start seeing Jim uh doing that as well. And so it's it's not just, you know, they may be more of the the the doers when it comes into the uh our ELT, but as they go in in their specific departments, now they're the visionary because they're looking at it and saying, okay, here's how this is gonna work. This is the this is the picture that I see, the the big picture, you know, and we're just on the backside looking and seeing how they're gonna build that and and and seeing them take that that piece and building a masterpiece out of it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And uh just to nail nail this point down, and then we're gonna talk about the lie we tell ourselves with with regard to growth. And that is um as as as Wayne and I really in the last couple of years have partnered more on this, but but but Wayne had the reins, you know, really 100%. Uh, and that was setting the the strategy and the vision um for for forward companies. What are the things that we want to do? What do we want to go after? Who do we want to, who do we want to become, what do we want to evolve into? Well, it takes it takes an executive team under that to have the vision of what does their department need to look like to support that division, that that vision. And what Angela did was she said, okay, we we need an accounting infrastructure that support that supports a multi-business entity. So we we we she took our accounting software and we upgraded it so that we could start doing consolidated financials, managing multi-business units in one platform, being able to pay bills and all that kind of stuff. And then and and uh we actually, you know, um shout out to um, you know, first First Horizon and uh some of our key, key financial relationships around here. One of them primarily is First Horizon. She she was instrumental in making that relationship work really good for us because she said, hey, this this is a this is a bank that they're they're launching some new systems. I believe they they had a new software. And the things that you can do online with their bank match the things that we need to do. So let's align ourselves, our accounts here and there. But she's the one who set the vision for that department on how accounting and and purchasing should work to match the overall vision of the company.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. And you got to have that. And and you know, in every single department, the accounting is just one that we're making an example of, but that is such a true statement, such a strong area uh, because um, you know, if you don't have that structure, I mean, really when you when you when you came in, I I look at us, we we were probably like a and I think somebody even mentioned that that my word is probably gonna be a little bit different, but we're like a bobblehead, you know, where just the top is so big that if it If if we don't build that structure underneath, that we're going to fall over at some point, you know, because we we focused everything on the online side of the business. And we did it really didn't build out the structure underneath to make sure it's very stable. And so when you came in, you started building the the structure and building the stability to it. And now you look at us, you know, we're just, you know, uh, if if you're a bodybuilder, we got really big, strong traps. Our shoulders are strong, our our head is now all of a sudden it's the proportion is is correct, right? And so Okay. No pictures of bodybuilders while Wayne is saying that.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. No pictures of the Quentin. Quentin. Yeah, no pictures of bodybuilders. Well, flesh. Unless it's old Wayne and New Wayne. Oh my gosh, whatever. That that's that new Wayne is very fit and proportioned well. Old Wayne, not so much.

SPEAKER_02

Well, the the body was bigger in the old Wayne. I don't know, but Face was pretty much.

SPEAKER_00

Old Wayne had some plan.

SPEAKER_02

Tell me about it.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. All right. Segment one. This is actually okay. We just spent 30 minutes. We didn't even talk about segment one. Segment one. Okay. But but uh some lies that we tell ourselves uh regarding our people when we're growing. Uh the the first lie here is that growth will fix people. Now, the reason why we tell ourselves that is because when you're in growth mode, you think I just need to hire more help.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And that will fix my people issues. The reason why people are breaking down, the reason why we're having issues is because people are stressed, they're doing too much, we're growing, we need to add more people. And that's a lie. The reason why growth does not fix people is because your leaders are not used to leading larger departments. So when it's one person who's been with you for five years and they're managing two other people who've also been with you for five years or more, it's easy. But then as you grow and you hire more people to do more work, what breaks is that supervisor, that manager, that director, that whatever that was doing great managing their two buddies that they've worked with for the last five years or family members.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

If it's uh, you know, if it starts as a small business, a lot of the people you hire are friends and family, right? That's how we grow small businesses. Exactly. Now they're leading five or six people. Four of them are brand new that don't even know the business, that you have to train, and you've got turnover that starts happening and things break. Growth does not fix people, period.

SPEAKER_02

Well, it it exposes the problem, right? It exposes your growth part of it. Exactly right. Yes. And so as you're as you're growing, again, it exposes the leadership. And it's not saying that that person that's leading can't level up and get there. It's just there they weren't prepared for the growth a lot of times. And uh, and honestly, that's just where the where it starts, is all of a sudden there's this big impact of growth. And, you know, with with us, we've been on a growth spurt for the past 15 years kind of thing, except for right around COVID. But, you know, and it's so it's exposed a lot over the years. And as we and and that's exactly where we've been here uh lately, is it's you know, as we're starting, we can already start feeling that expansion starting to happen right now. And um, and so we know it's coming. But you know, if you if you prepare for it all the time and and really train your people, you know, not only does it expose it, but it also allows us to understand where our ex our leadership is in that chain and how they're growing. And then how can we come beside them and help them elevate?

SPEAKER_00

You you said it exactly. How do we come beside them and help them elevate? Now, but that takes where you understand, hey, we're growing. And a year from now, this department, we're gonna have to add two more people.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You have to be very intentional about that leader. What are the gaps that you see in that leader? Yeah. And and I'm and I'm at you have to go all the way back to hiring. Okay. Chances are, if you're a small business and you're growing, you don't even have an HR department. So you don't have a recruiter, you don't have someone pre-screening candidates. How do you know that a candidate even qualifies for a job, doesn't qualify for a job? So your frontline managers, they're just they're posting ads on Facebook or on LinkedIn or Indeed or whatever. Wherever they can, right? Wherever they can. They don't understand what to look for in a candidate. They don't know how to interview properly a candidate. They don't know what to say, what not to say. They don't know how to make an offer, how to explain benefits. They don't know how to uh how to explain the expectation of the job, core values of the organization, right? Like it starts right at the hiring process where leaders who are growing in their role start to fail because growth is exposing things that they've never had to do before. That's our responsibility as leaders to recognize that. And then to your point, come alongside them, give them the support, give them the training, help them do it for them the first couple of times, get them elevated, and then go. But if you don't do that, you know what you're gonna do? You're gonna lose that internal manager.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

You're gonna have to hire someone from the outside who might know all those things, but now they don't know your business. And they don't know the people. And they don't know the people. And then the people under them are frustrated because I've heard this before. This is the second boss that I've had to train. Oh my gosh. Yeah, right. Right. I have I have been told that in this organization. Actually, I've been told that more than once. Right. Okay. But that's because you, you know, I'll take ownership for this because I failed elevating the leader or the manager that was in that role to get them to a position where they were able to handle the additional growth and responsibility.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, but you also have uh on the other side of that, you also have where people just uh coming and HR come at that what what you know not maybe not even HR, like you said, we didn't have, but it's like, hey, I need somebody, I need somebody now, just get me a warm body to come in and fill that role. You know, I just I just get me somebody and I'll train them. Well, you get somebody and you put them in, but who has sometimes who has the time to train? Well, you gotta take that time to train. And sometimes it means that as a as a leader, sometimes you have to do what's better for the company more than you have to do what's better for you. And uh, and that's a hard thing for people to understand a lot of times. And you know, and so when you bring someone in new, you have to spend that time to do it. Sometimes you have to work instead of 40 hours a week like you're used to as a leader. Uh leadership doesn't have a certain set hours of how many hours that you work. Sometimes you got to work 45 or 50 hours. Sometimes you got to work 60. You know, we've done we've all done that, done that, we've all been there. It's not something that we always like to do or want to do, but sometimes you got to put in the time to not only make sure you get the job done, but also invest in that team, invest in that person to make sure they can level up. Because as soon as you can get them leveled up and get them to the point, especially if they got that potential, the better it's gonna make the whole overall problem.

SPEAKER_00

And it does amazing things for your culture and your organization when you can level people up internally. Yeah. It just helps strengthen.

SPEAKER_02

Well, then they know that they've got an opportunity to grow within the company because you're not always bringing outside people in.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely. Um, I'm really struggling right now to not drink my entire coffee because it's so good. So I brought my Nespresso machine from home. You're gonna have to go get another one before we film the next episode. I brought my Nespresso machine from home. So I got this Nespresso and um this oat milk. It's like this um Italian cream, oat milk flavoring, and I do put like a couple of stevias in there. Dude, it's so good.

SPEAKER_02

You're talking about running off the rails. We all said we're talking about something, and then we go straight into the coffee kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00

It's uh So I'm drinking a lot, but I'm like taking baby sips because I need it to last another hour. Need it to last another Well you can always make another one. I I I could. I don't know why psychologically I fall into the same routines. Like if you've noticed me every morning I do the same exact things every single morning. Yeah, and only and having only one cup of coffee per day in the morning is one of my routines. I would actually love to have a second cup. But psychologically, because that's not my pattern, I just can't seem to break it. I've already had two cups. That sounds crazy. I know it sounds wild. I like that. Okay. Loyalty. Here's the other lie that we tell ourselves. And okay, we're really gonna move fast now, I promise. I say that every like we actually have five segments in in this. The other lie we tell ourselves is loyalty equals keeping everyone. That's loyalty. Are you like you're throwing it away now? Like no, I'm not throwing it away.

SPEAKER_02

I was just uh moving it around. I flipped it over and I shouldn't have.

SPEAKER_00

The lie we tell ourselves is loyalty equals keeping everyone. So as you're as you're growing as as business owners, you're struggling to, we got to keep the family together. It feels like a family. This is a family environment. So you naturally think loyalty is how do I, I gotta find ways to keep people together. And that's a lie that we tell ourselves. Now, I am not saying that it's not great to work hard to keep people who've been with you for a long time. The problem is they can't hold you hostage because then that becomes a serious issue. Right. And the other thing is you are not doing them any favors by holding back um difficult conversations, areas of opportunity where they need to grow. So you're walking around all day long, laying in bed at night, you're carrying the weight of, you know, uh Susie or Joey or whoever that is struggling with these issues, and you know what's wrong and you see it, but you don't tell them because you're afraid that it'll make them upset or you're afraid if you give have a hard conversation that they'll quit. Loyalty does not equal keeping people.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Period. Man, that's such a good uh uh uh uh part because it doesn't. I mean, you know, and as hard as we want to uh have that loyalty and keep everybody in place, you know, and we work hard at doing that, but it does them a disservice if they if they're not fulfilling that position or they are or they don't have the potential in that part of it. It doesn't mean that they don't have the potential, it just means that, hey, maybe this is not the right spot for them. And and then you look and say, okay, is there another spot? You know, they're they're great people, they're just wrong right person, wrong seat. Yes. Right? And and so that's uh that's a big deal. You know, we've had to really look at that over the years, you know, because we have great people and sometimes they're the right person in the wrong seat. And then and I can't remember, I I know we've had this uh happen to us uh several times, but you you you take them as like, man, what what can we do with this person and how can we move them? They're just not in the right spot. But then you move them and you find that wow, they just hit the right spot. They they they just moved, now they're the right person in the right seat. Oh, I know exactly who.

SPEAKER_00

I okay, I wasn't gonna say his name because you gotta say it. I I I will, but before I before I say it, he but he falls into this. He does. Okay, but before I say it, just so people listening or watching don't think I'm a liar, how many reorganizations have I done? Dude, how many people have I moved around, change positions, move from department to department? Every six months, you can count on me, January and July. Somebody's moving, something's changing. Yeah. I try to only do it twice a year because I don't want to cause disruption, but then I also want to do it at a cadence where people kind of expect, okay, if there's something's gonna happen or somebody's gonna move departments, it's gonna happen during this particular time frame.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So I and probably more than half the time, I got it wrong. But when you recognize that someone's in a role that they're just not succeeding in, you have to do something about it. It doesn't mean that I'm gonna put them in a position now where they're gonna all of a sudden be successful. I might get that wrong too. And I may have to move them again, move them again. But it's our responsibility when you've got great people who display our culture, our core focus, our core values. They they love being here, they're hungry to learn. I feel like it's my responsibility to find a way to set that person up for success.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

So sometimes, yep, people get moved around, but I'm not gonna keep them in a position where they're not successful, or at least where I, as the leader, I believe they're not successful because people can disagree. And I'll let you, because he's probably running right now while he's listening to this.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, he probably is. I'll tell you what, Stephen Wilson has absolutely crushed his new role. But you know what I love about that part, too, though.

SPEAKER_00

And how many jobs has he had around here?

SPEAKER_02

He's had quite a few.

SPEAKER_00

More than five. Probably more than five. Probably.

SPEAKER_02

But you know, he and let's I'm gonna throw this out there real quick. Steven has never done a bad job at any job that he's done. Agreed. It was just finding the job that he just absolutely excelled at. And you and you never know, right? But the new position that he's been in for about two years now, I mean, he is just absolutely owned. He's crushing it, doing a fantastic job. I don't know, I don't think anybody really saw it coming because it's just it's moving him in different places. But what I love about what he's done, and we've got others that that do the same thing, have done the same thing. And I've always talked about my story of you learn certain things as you go along. You know, you've been under this boss or you've been doing this, and and as you move, you know, I did mine by when I was early in my career, not with CDF, but when I was working for my dad, Don't Chase Rabbits, when I was working for this guy, how to treat people. You learn different things as you go through. We all do, because it's called experience. And it's and then you start developing your leadership style. In a sense, Stephen's done that here. He's worked for different people, he's worked in different positions, he knows the organization really, really well. You know, Stephen is 31 and he has been here 11 years, 12 years? Just had his anniversary.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Not not too long ago.

SPEAKER_02

And so he's been here a long time. I mean, he was he started in, he was in college when he started here. Um, and you know, and he, you know, he started out as just doing data entry, but he's worked his way through, but he understands the business so well. But uh, you know, he's that person that you look and say, hey, maybe this wasn't the right spot for him, but he learned every step of the way and he took it. He took constructive criticism extremely well. Sometimes, you know, that that that hurts, right? It sometimes it it it's hard to get past that. But Steven persevered and he went through and he and he every time, every stop, he learned so well. But he is uh he's owned it and is absolutely crushing it. He's you know that you can almost say that poster child that just like, yeah, he gets it.

SPEAKER_00

And shout out to his his he was very um is it retrospective? When something happens, he can look back on it. Um and uh and the the um the trust that he put in us because a a lot of other more immature, emotionally immature leaders would have said, Well, they must not want me around here or what whatever. And that was and the opposite was true. We wanted him around here so much, we were we were working hard to find a spot where he could really be successful, love what he was doing, all that kind of stuff. And I I feel like we've um found that spot uh for him. And uh to to to no effort of our own, he's done all the work, you know. Yeah um himself.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, he owns it 100%. And that's exactly what you want from your when you move somebody into a position like that, that's you want that type of success. And it doesn't happen every time. Sometimes it takes multiple moves. Most of the time. Most of the time, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It like nobody, nobody's ever I don't know any leaders in in my, you know, sh it feels short, but I guess over just over 20 year, you know, kind of of of leading and managing people, I don't know anyone who's better than 50 percent.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

With moves, hires. Like we're all batting about 300. If you're good, you're batting 300.

SPEAKER_02

Well, yeah, exactly. That's all star, right? Yeah. Um, and so but sometimes that takes development, it takes time to go through that. And and again, you you you learn as you go through every every step. You know, hey, what did I do? Or what what could I have done better, or or however. And so um, shout out to him. He he's he's done a phenomenal job over the past couple of years where he's at. He's he's definitely the right person in the right seat.

SPEAKER_00

For the record, when I said I was gonna land this thing in 20 minutes, I wasn't lying. I had every intention of doing that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I've just decided it's not gonna be possible. So we're gonna have to just go a little bit longer. That's fine because you can always push pause and come back to this. But that just means the next one we film like we got to be tight. Yeah. Because I got work to do after this. So um, all right, what happens when the tide actually rises? So when when the business is growing, what's actually happening? Decisions are getting faster, standards are getting higher. And here's the big one mistakes get really, really expensive because it's not just one thing. Oh, we got to replace this one door. It's procurement slowed down, accounting slowed down, operations slowed down, sales had to get involved with it. Like, because you're a larger ship now, you've got more moving pieces. It's not just the dollar value of that, of having to replace that thing or whatever. It's the whole ship almost starts to grind to a halt. And that makes those things really, really expensive, really expensive. And if you have leaders that are not positioned well to manage that growth when the tide rises, then leaders stall. They actually avoid making decisions. So you get this ownership delegation as opposed to the leader owning it, making the decision and moving on. They avoid making those decisions. They delegate responsibility where they shouldn't. And um, and then standards actually get lower because people get used to kind of workarounds. They get used to errors, they get used to issues, and now the next thing you know, everybody's showing up late to work.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_00

You know, it's you know, kind of thing. So um there are there's major danger in the tide rising and you as a leader not being hyper focused on what's happening with the frontline leadership and the team members all around you.

SPEAKER_02

Well, you can never let your uh your let let things just slide and get out of your control, out of your hands. If you do, that's uh that's a reflection of leadership. And as we've we've grown, we've just got to continue to grow, you've continued to to push the team to make sure that that we don't let it slip. And especially when things are going good, right? Uh, you know, when things are going bad, it's easy to jump in and say, hey, how do we fix this? How do we correct the issue? But when things are are are going really well, that's not the time to sit back and relax. That's the time that let's make sure that it doesn't go backwards again. Let's make sure that we continue to keep focused and continue to make sure that the people are all in the right spots and doing. And um, you know, and and when we start seeing as we move and as we start seeing water creeping in or things happening into the ship, that we we we address those issues as quickly as we possibly can. And like you said, that comes back to having those uh conversations, that comes back to evaluating every single position just to make sure that we don't have issues going down the road because if you see them now, it doesn't mean that they're gonna get better when it gets bigger. It means that it's probably gonna get worse when it gets bigger, right? That hole's gonna get bigger and bigger and bigger. Dude. And duct tape doesn't work.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. So you remember how we had the uh coup a few episodes ago, the picture, and we showed it on this on the screen with the uh the jet, the jet ski. Yes, and it was crystal clear, and they look in the back of the way. So yesterday, I'm I don't know why I'm targeted by Facebook on these funny videos, and um, this is what we're talking about. So they're they're just driving the boat along and they're they're pulling this uh inner tube and they make a turn and and whatever, and they're having fun looking out on the boat, and then the camera like turns back, and all you see is the inner tube hit this wake and the people just like explode all over the all over the place, right? Like that's what's happening in your business right now. If you're growing and you're not looking back to see what's happening with the people, they're getting thrown off the inner tube everywhere, all over the place, yeah, everywhere. Yeah, and then what do you have to do? You gotta slow the boat down, turn around, and go pick them up. Go pick everybody up, make sure there's no broken limbs, make sure everybody is okay, yeah. Get them back onto the raft. Yeah, and then when you go again, you gotta go slower. Hey, trust me, I won't do that again to you. Now it that is a great, you know, a visual of exactly what happens in a growing business. No, right. They did explode off that thing. I mean, it's like they all all four of them like went all different directions when they hit that that bump in the water.

SPEAKER_02

And sometimes it's the people that's on the raft. It's not the boat driver. Sometimes it's the ones on the raft that that tell the boat driver, oh yeah, we're good. Go faster. We want to challenge. Faster, Dad. Yeah, faster. I've done that. And I've I've I've slung some buddies off that that uh and they land uh and they get back on. It's like, okay, I think I'm I think I'm okay. Uh you know, well, maybe slower next time. Slower next time, don't challenge me like that, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Um, we kind of talked a little bit about this, but uh, I just want to mention the hard the hard call. This is where loyalty does not equal keeping people. You you really you've got three things you gotta you gotta check. You've only got three paths you can take. First thing is can you coach the person up? And that's every leader's desire. But I will challenge you as a leader or a manager, if you're not pushing yourself, if you're not learning, if you're not reading, if you're not growing, if you're not learning from other people's mistakes, then you have no right or authority to try to bring someone else up or lift them up. If you're not growing and developing, then you can't pull people up with you. Okay.

SPEAKER_01

But the first goal is what I say is not do it as I do, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yes. Do not be the person who is do as I say, not as I do. You've got to lead by example. And uh people should, people should see your example by what you do. They should not only know your example by what they hear you saying, you got to do it with action. The next, the next thing after coaching, and this is what we talked about, this is what I'm famous for and whether I get it right, which I get wrong most of the time. And that's redeploy people. Yeah. If you recognize that someone's not successful in the role, or maybe they're just getting burned out, right? If they've been with you for a long time, they've been doing the same thing over and over again, maybe it's time to go from shipping to accounting or something, right? Give them a change of scenery, roll, redeploy. Try to find a role that they might love, that they might, they might do really, really good in. And that should be a two-way conversation. And if that doesn't work, then you have to make the call to exit that person to protect the business. Because if you're not making those hard decisions, keeping someone in the wrong role is not kindness. It's negligence. And that can't be tolerated when you're when you're leading any any kind of a ship.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Not at all. I mean you cannot all the time. We we do it. And there's people listening right, you and I did it. We've made those mistakes. There's people listening right now. So avoiding that difficult conversation, yeah, it might make your tomorrow go a little bit more smooth, but you're sacrificing such a great future by not having that awkward difficult conversation today.

SPEAKER_02

And the longer you wait on that, just it doesn't go away. Because trust me, I I've done it in the past where it's like man, if if I don't I don't want to have that conversation and if I just avoid it, it'll, it'll, it'll go away. And there might be a time or two in the and where it it does, but I can't remember when and it's just gonna except it's gonna get worse. And sometimes it's having that conversation, they're on this place and you're in this place. And when you have that conversation you come to this place and it's and it wasn't because it was anything wrong. It's just sometimes it's an interpretation, right? Sometimes it's like, well, that's not what I thought you were talking about. Oh well, you know, it's just then it's comes back to clear expectations, right? To make sure that you're all in the right position. But you know, just have that conversation, you know, and and as we have, you know, that's part of our training as we've gone through several of the books together as a as teams, how to have the conversations and how to receive the conversations, you know, that's a just as a big of a part of it is because sometimes if you're a small business and you're having those awkward conversations or having those tough calls, it's really hard to some for some people that haven't been trained that way, that they look at that as not necessarily constructive criticism. They look at that as as criticism and you're just you're you're targeting me and that kind of thing. And when you start learning how to have the right type of conversation and learning how to receive it, number one, learning how to give it and number two, learning how to receive it. And if you can give it you need to learn how to take it back, right? And make sure that you have those conversations in the right way.

SPEAKER_00

So I don't know if this is the the right name for this. I'm not a scientist or whatever. So if this is wrong, nobody throw darts at me but I think it's called chaos theory. And I think I I believe that's what it's called. And the theory basically states that any anything left basically unattended will naturally move towards chaos which basically means a worse condition than what it what it is today, right? For example, if you leave a house unattended it is going to start falling apart. It's gonna get nasty, dirty, whatever. If you leave your yard unattended, it's gonna get overgrown with weeds and all that kind of stuff. If you leave your car unattended, you're gonna you'll come out one day the tires are are kind of flat now they got they got flat spots on on the on the bottoms you're you know the the motor won't turn over because the oil's been sitting there for so long whatever that if you think about anything like that, if you leave something alone it will naturally gravitate into into chaos, into a worse condition. Business is the exact same way. So if you are not intentionally touching and working on your culture every day, then it's getting worse not better. If you're not actively leading your leaders coaching training feeding them they're not getting better. They're getting worse. Your team members are getting worse you have to constantly be enforcing these things and touching them because if not chaos theory sets in that's what Wayne's talking about it's you can't just sit back and expect the situation to get better with that team member or those two team members or that leader or whatever. The problem isn't going to go away it is going to get worse. And then when it does get worse and it blows up it's gonna be could be lawsuit, hotline call, compliance somebody gets hurt or injured, you know, or something like that, then the result of that issue will be far worse than if you just would have sat down and had that difficult conversation and addressed it right then and there.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. The things you watch are the things that always stay improved that always stay in check right a big pet peeve of mine has always been is to make sure we have a clean house, you know, make sure that our place looks good. You know what I've always, you know, and I I I drove this home years and years and years ago at the other place and and I don't even have to even say anything about it now because it was from almost day one is if you if your if your business is dirty when you walk in, that's the kind of product that you can expect to get out. Something that's unfinished it's not good, it's just it's because the care is not there. But if your business when you walk in as as look looks great is in shape uh that's the kind of product you should get out that's the same way you expect with your people as well. So it's not just it doesn't just translate to the product that you get out it translates to the people that are working there too. Nobody wants to work in a nasty dirty environment they want to come into something that they can take pride in, right? And that they can enjoy and being a part of and it just allows you to have the people that that embody the culture that you're in, embody what you do and it and it and then translate into how you grow and to your leadership style and all that kind of thing. You know I've always um the you know one thing that I I I look at is when I bring in people from the outside now the bankers that want to come in and see our new facility or or people that want to walk through because you know we're proud of what we have. Well we've invested a lot of time and effort and money into how this place that we that we're in now looks just like over at the depot when we're doing now we could have had the car place going a a a month or two ago but nobody would have wanted to put their cars there, right? Or wanted to do their thing to it. It's because it's the the value that you give and it's a perception more than just a perception that you give it's it's it's what you lay out in front of people and what they expect from you as a business owner or as a leader. Now we just I don't have to say a word you don't probably have to say a word as to how that from the wall back here goes to the shop, you know, it's going to always look good no matter what because they take pride in what they do. And it's just again it's it's it's a downward fall of not downward but it's one of those that from the top down, you know, this is what we expect and then that's what our team members expect our leaders all that kind of stuff trickle all the way down. Having that part of the culture in it means a whole lot. But it also you know as we do that not only you know we have the the team that as we teach them, as we uh uh read the books together as we go through the fall classes together as we do all of that it just allows us to to up our our performance all the way around and and put the leaders in the position that can make those transitions quickly for us.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah small things matter we didn't we didn't spend the money resurfacing the parking lot and restriping the parking lot because it made it easier to park yeah we did it because it sends a message that when you pull into our parking lot, we care about this place. Yeah. It looks great. It matters a couple of weeks ago I I was tell I was telling Jeff because every time I walk up I'm always I'm just looking around I'm looking at the parking lot looking at the sidewalk and all that I'm noticing like weeds coming coming up in the mulch and all that. So I told Jeff I said hey like I I don't care if you got to pay the yard guy or if we just or if we just buy a little some weed and feed but all these weeds they got to be killed. I don't want to see grass growing up in the you know in the parking lot those small things matter. That doesn't make me a maniac or a micromanager what it means is we we're setting a standard of how of how we're gonna treat our business of how we're gonna treat our facility and that needs to start from the minute somebody pulls onto the lot uh we had we we've only been here a few months we had the we had all the traffic areas shampooed and treated and all that kind of stuff just this past weekend. Why not because it looked bad but because I'm trying to keep it from looking bad we want to make sure that it it maintains looking good you know so um those are just small examples but in those situations small things speak volumes about you as a leader, the expectations that you really have and then also what's the example that you're setting for the people around you. So yeah the weeds growing through the cracks in your parking lot talk about your your culture and what you tolerate and what you don't tolerate small things like that matter.

SPEAKER_02

That would probably make a uh a very good podcast by itself you know keeping the weeds out right to where um you know because that's that that that that translates because I can guarantee you if you went back and talked to everybody in this whole facility they understand the importance of keeping the weeds out.

SPEAKER_00

The flags we replace the flags we replace the the the the poll the cords on the poles I mean just you you name it small things matter. They do they matter and when you get people looking at the small things like you always say it right take care of the pennies and the dollars take care of themselves or something like that. So same type of thing. All right see I'm I'm only well I am 18 minutes so it's I went 40. You can count on me if whatever I say just double it. Okay. All right uh but listen we we really appreciate you uh hanging with us watching or listening to the 3PX show we love we love doing it if you can't tell we could sit here and talk for for hours it's probably why we have a podcast but uh listen you're not gonna want to miss next episode because we're gonna be talking about filtering work filtering people when you're growing is important but filtering work as you're growing is equally as important because you can say yes to the wrong kind of revenue and it can end up hurting you. So I can't wait to get into that with you next. So hey hope you enjoyed please like share subscribe all the things interact with us on social media we would love to talk to you otherwise have a great rest of your day and uh thank you for watching the 3PX stuff see you bye